Two obituaries of Frans de Waal (1948–2024). And why Frans de Waal hated vegans.

Andrew Whiten wrote an obituary about Frans de Waal in Nature [1] and Sarah Brosnan did so in Science [2]. Both use the same quote of the deceased primatologist: "I’ve brought apes a little closer to humans but I’ve also brought humans down a bit." In this blog I will add a few lesser-known facts about his life which are absent from the published obituaries and the reviews of his books.

Capuchin monkey fairness experiment

Sarah Brosnan joined de Waals lab as a graduate student in1998 and completed her PhD under his direction in 2004. The discovery that Capuchin monkeys reject unequal pay (video above) made her famous. Andrew Whiten is Emeritus Wardlaw Professor of Psychology in the School of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of St Andrews, UK. The hilarious video fragment with two Capuchin monkeys went viral with 1,5 million hits. In the video one monkey gets a piece of cucumber and the second a grape (which is a higher-value food). The first monkey gets angry and throws his cucumber back to the researcher and protests loudly. This proves monkeys have a feeling for justice and don't like unequal treatment. This is a property previously thought to exist only in humans. Therefore: "I’ve brought apes a little closer to humans but I’ve also brought humans down a bit." The experiments were published in Nature [3,4].

Sarah Brosnan wrote in Science [2]:

"Frans de Waal, groundbreaking primatologist, died on 14 March. He was 75. De Waal spent his career, as both a scientist and an award-winning science writer, shrinking the distance between humans and animals. He demonstrated through careful observations and experiments that animals exhibit complex thoughts and behaviors that had long been considered the exclusive domain of humans." ...

"He went on to show that many primates cooperate, care about equity, show empathy and emotional contagion, help one another, " ...

“That’s how you can sum up my career: I’ve brought apes a little closer to humans, but I’ve also brought humans down a bit.”

Andrew Whiten wrote in Nature :

"de Waal’s research portfolio extended to diverse species, notably elephants, capuchin monkeys and bonobos (Pan paniscus), tackling typically human concepts such as morality, fairness and empathy." [1]

Indeed, Frans de Waal researched chimps, bonobos, monkeys and elephants [8]. De Waal and Sarah Brosnan [5], [6] also wrote about morality and empathy. 

In 2005 De Waal wrote 'Good Natured: The Origins of Right and Wrong in Humans and Other Animals' and in 2006 he was the editor of the book: 'Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved' (in which Peter Singer is a contributor). In that volume de Waal - contrary to Singer - denies animal rights. In 2009 De Waal wrote The Age of Empathy: Nature's Lessons for a Kinder Society. 
In 2011, De Waal and colleagues went on to prove that chimpanzees are inherently altruistic as well [7].

In 2013 De Waal published a remarkable opinion piece Zijn vleeseters agressief? (Are meat-eaters aggressive?) in the Dutch Psychologie Magazine. He wrote that cultured meat is a good invention because no central nervous system is involved, so no animals suffer. However, at the same time he ridicules vegans like for example the American psychologist Melanie Joy, author of Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows [9]. It is unclear why De Waal attacks people (vegetarians and implicitly vegans) who support a better treatment of animals, are committed to banish factory farming and are phasing out or stopped eating meat altogether. Vegans do no hurt humans or animals. So, why attack them? Furthermore, De Waal strongly argues against the idea that meat-eaters are more aggressive than vegetarians [10].  

On August 20th 2017 Frans de Waal said on Dutch tv that the meat industry is bad, but he defended eating meat by an 'appeal to nature' (or naturalistic fallacy). This is not well-known, even in the Netherlands. The obituaries of Frans de Waal do not mention it.

Mama's last hug

In his book Mama's last hug. Animal Emotions and What They Teach Us About Ourselves  (2019) there is an important paragraph 'Meat and sentience' (in chapter 7 'Sentience: what animals feel') in which he reveals: 

"Even if I have no problem with meat-eating per se, there is a lot wrong with how we treat animals and how we raise, transport, and slaughter them."  "I have joined it [meatless diets] in my own imperfect and undogmatic fashion by banishing practically all mammalian meat from my family's kitchen." [12]. 

In 2022 de Waal published Different: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist. He wrote about baboons: "They like meat but eat mostly plants." and about chimps: "Whenever chimps capture prey, male hunters share meat preferentially with swollen females."

On 20 April 2023 De Waal says again on Dutch tv that the way pigs are treated is bad [11], but did not say he stopped eating meat all together.

 

Conclusion

Frans de Waal is a clear example of a person with cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort people feel when their beliefs and actions are contradictory, ultimately making them change either their beliefs or actions. Frans de Waal changes both his beliefs and his actions. He believes that the 'meat industry is bad' and that it is a moral imperative to phase out eating animals [13]. Then he realizes that his meat eating behavior is in conflict with his beliefs. He tried to solve this conflict in two ways: by believing that 'meat eating is natural' (and by implication vegetarianism is unnatural), and by changing his behavior: he 'banished practically all mammalian meat from his family's kitchen'. 

All dissonance solved? No. This is an incomplete solution because there is still some dissonance left. Science tells him that all animals with a central nervous system can feel pain. So what about chickens and fish? He knows that chickens are treated badly in the meat industry. Furthermore, a vegetarian diet still uses animal products from factory farming (milk, cheese, eggs). The solution would be veganism (change of behavior). He did not do that. In stead he chose to attack vegans and veganism. He believed that 'we are not meant to be vegan'. Also: vegans are dogmatic and I am not dogmatic. That's why he hated vegans. In this way he resolved his cognitive dissonance. His behavior seemed to be in harmony with his beliefs.

All dissonance solved? Not quite. Whether 'we are meant to be vegan' is irrelevant for the moral question. Animals suffer whether or not humans are meant to be vegan. And it is not relevant whether carnists are more aggressive than vegans or not. And it is also irrelevant for the moral question whether vegetarianism is difficult to maintain. Unfortunately, Frans de Waal did not live long enough to draw the logical conclusion from the fact that all creatures with a central nervous system can feel pain. It has not escaped our notice that Frans de Waal may not be the only person struggling with this kind of cognitive dissonance.

Notes

1. Andrew Whiten (2024) Frans de Waal (1948–2024), primatologist who questioned the uniqueness of human minds. Nature 10 April 2024. Andrew Whiten is Emeritus Wardlaw Professor of Psychology in the School of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of St Andrews, UK.
   
2. Sarah F. Brosnan  (2024) Frans de Waal (1948–2024). Primatologist who brought animals and humans "a little closer". Science 25 Apr 2024. 
3. Sarah F. Brosnan, Frans B. M. de Waal (2003) Monkeys reject unequal pay
   18 September 2003
4. Sarah F. Brosnan, Frans B. M. de Waal (2004) Fair refusal by capuchin monkeys, 11 March 2004 
5. A  Comparative  Perspective  on  the  Evolution of Moral Behavior
   Katie Hall and Sarah F. Brosnan (chapter in: The Evolution of Morality).
6. Brosnan, as a student and colleague of de Waal, studied animals and wrote about morality, but did not openly argue against eating meat. Maybe de Waal's attitude influenced her.
   
7. Frans de Waal, biologist who championed animal intelligence and emotion, dies at 75  National Geographic, March 21, 2024
   
8. De Waal did not study cows, pigs and chickens. He discusses pigs in Mama's last hug. Cows, pigs and chickens are considered food and exempt from legal protection. It is legal to kill them. In the Netherlands it is illegal to kill your cat or dog. It should only be done by a veterinarian.
9.  Her book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows and especially the concept carnism  is an eye-opener. Required reading. Melanie Joy showed that by naming eating meat carnism, it becomes clear that is an ideology. Carnism is an ideology that is never questioned. Carnism requires justification just as any moral choice.
10. It seems to me completely irrelevant to the moral issue of killing animals for meat. So, why bring it up?
    
11. My blog Zo kijkt Frans de Waal naar mens en dier. VPRO Tegenlicht. Ik snap het niet.   20 April 2023.
12. 'meat eating per se' is an abstract theoretical situation. In practice human meat eaters completely depend on the meat industry. De Waal first shows irrelevant evidence that vegetarianism is difficult to maintain (16/77 of chapter 7 eBook), than says "I admire the effort" and than describes his own effort as 'undogmatic'. This implies all strict vegetarians are dogmatic, and he himself has superior ways of thinking and doing things. This is a way to turn a personal failure to ban all meat in to a success. He hopes the meat industry will change in stead becoming a vegan.
13. "I see the pursuit of such goals as a moral imperative, but it will be best accomplished if we honestly face where we come from rather than spinning the fairy tale, often heard these days, that we are meant to be vegan. We are not." (chapter 7, 17/77 eBook Mama's ast hug). Whether some vegans are supposedly claim silly things, is not relevant for his 'moral imperative.' Again, pointlessly attacking vegetarians and vegans!

Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz: The Dance of Life: Symmetry, Cells and How We Become Human. Book review.

The Dance of Life

Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz, Roger Highfield (2020) The Dance of Life. Symmetry, Cells and How We Become Human.

Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz is a Polish-British developmental biologist and experimental embryologist. "I am one of the relatively small number of scientists who have cultured human embryos, allowing them to grow and thrive, although most of my work has been with mouse embryos (...) But I have to admit that I was also driven by the oldest scientific motive of all: I wanted to gain fundamental understanding of a critical chapter in the story of a human life, as this is when the embryo starts to grow and the overall body plan starts to be decided."

Roger Ronald Highfield is an author, science journalist, broadcaster and Science Director at the Science Museum Group.

Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz

This is an interesting and important book about ground-breaking discoveries of the development of the human embryo and also because of how her scientific research unexpectedly has been intertwined with her personal life:

"Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz was pregnant at 42 when a routine genetic test came back with that dreaded word: abnormal. A quarter of sampled cells contained abnormalities and she was warned her baby had an increased risk of being miscarried or born with birth defects. Six months later she gave birth to a healthy baby boy and her research on mice embryos went on to prove that – as she had suspected – the embryo has an amazing and previously unknown ability to correct abnormal cells at an early stage of its development." (from the publisher)

It appeared that her prenatal test of her pregnancy showed a trisomy 2: three copies of chromosome 2 (one extra copy) in a quarter of the tested cells. This is a very rare but serious chromosome abnormality [1]. 

normal human chromosomes (♂) wikipedia

The most frequent trisomies are 13, 18 and 21, and they are the only ones compatible with life birth. This is because these three chromosomes are small and have few protein-coding genes: chromosome 13 has 327, chromosome 18 has 270,and chromosome 21 has 234 protein-coding genes. Of those three, trisomy-21 is most frequent, this chromosome happens to have the smallest number of protein-coding genes. However, chromosome 2 is the second-largest human chromosome with 1309 protein-coding genes. A trisomy-2 in all cells is not compatible with life. The fact that later she had a healthy baby is surprising at first sight. However, the test was a CVS (Chorionic Villus Sampling)  performed between 10 and 13 weeks gestation. CVS is a sample of tissue from the placenta. It appeared that there was a mosaicism. Later in her pregnancy she had a second test, an amniocentesis (usually between 16 - 20 weeks) which had a normal result. So, she did not really take a huge risk by continuing the pregnancy [1]. Obviously, this was a very emotional and stressful period in her life. These personal details add greatly to the value of the book. So, it is not 'just' a book about her scientific discoveries. These personal details matter, because after getting the CVS result, she switched her lab research activities immediately to the question whether an embryo was able to get rid of abnormal cells ('self-repair').

Although I am familiar with chromosomes, prenatal and postnatal chromosome analysis, I was unfamiliar with the in vitro culture of human and mouse embryos and learned a lot of new interesting facts. She consequently refers to 'self-repair' of the embryo with abnormal chromosomes. I am inclined to interpret the disappearance of abnormal cells in an embryo as a case of the dying of chromosomal abnormal cells. Anyway the hypothetical 'self-repair' fails in the case of trisomy-13, 18 and 21 and all other chromosomal abnormalities (too many to list them here!). Trisomy occurs in a relatively high frequency of 1 in every 700 babies born. So, in these cases 'self-repair' fails. Furthermore, "Around 30 percent of early pregnancies fail before the embryo implants in the body of the mother, with another 30 percent around that time". And then there are hundreds of other birth 'defects' such as Conjoined twins, Cleft Lip, etc. A problem for both 'self-repair/dying of cells' interpretations is to explain the fact that trisomy-2 placental cells were able to grow to a rather large percentage of 25% despite this serious abnormality.

'Self-organizing' human embryos

"To illustrate just how remarkable your origins are, and the extra-ordinary process of embryo self-organization, let's imagine building a house in the same way as your body built itself. First of all, there would be no plans, as such, to construct your body. Nor would there be a blueprint or an architectural drawing or design. There are instructions, but if they work in the same way as the twenty thousand genes used to build your body, there would be no simple relationship between these instructions and how the final house appears, just as there is no simple relationship between a recipe and the appearance of a cake. There is no project manager ... Because this house self-organizes ..." (from the Introduction) [3].

Ethics

Should human embryos be used in research?

 

Chapter 7 is the first chapter in which Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz discusses ethics of experimenting with human embryos. "Although an early embryo is not a person, I believe that it deserves protection." She extends this respect to mouse embryos:

"In my lab, everyone is taught to show the early mouse embryo respect. I have a rule that ad hoc meetings, seminars, coffee breaks, and other distractions have to wait until an experiment using a mouse embryo is finished and the embryo has been safely returned to the incubator to continue its development, as it would in the body of the mother. Woe betide anyone in my laboratory who does not treat life with respect." (Chapter 7 Should human embryos be used in research?)

This is the first and only instance she discusses the ethics of mouse embryos [2]. Chapter 7 is exclusively about the ethics of culturing human embryos (page 588/1273 of my eBook). Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz has worked for three decades with mouse embryos and created hundreds of mouse embryos just for one project. So, the total number must be in the thousands. I could not find how mouse embryos are created. The obvious source is mouse mothers. She mentions 'foster mothers' and 'foster mouse mothers'. Despite the claimed respect for mouse embryos, respect for the adult mouse, the mothers of the embryos, seems to be totally absent:

"Because, of course, we could not test my hypothesis on human embryos, we tested it on mouse embryos." (chapter 8)

Adult mice are exempt from moral considerations. You just use them in unlimited quantities. In contrast to an embryo of a few weeks, adult mice feel pain and stress.

Conclusion

I highly recommend this book. If you are not interested in welfare of lab animals the book is very enjoyable and brings you up to date in the field of developmental biology and artificial embryos. However, if you care about the welfare of lab animals, her complete lack of interest in animal welfare is disturbing. Unfortunately, Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz is no exception. The majority of experimental biologists do animal experiments.

 

Appendix

Scientific and ethical arguments against animal experiments illustrated with quotes from her book:

• "we needed to study not only mouse but also human embryos because they do not develop in quite the same way from the time of implantation." (Chapter 6)
  
•  "Surprisingly, human and mouse embryo architectures diverge widely at this point" (Chapter 6)
• ""although human and mouse blastocysts appear similar at first, their architectures look dramatically different after a few days." (Chapter 6)
• "while we can get valuable insights by carrying out research on other mammals, only by studying human embryos will we be able to understand human development." (chapter 6)
• "Different species of mammal have adopted different strategies to implant in the uterus ..." (Chapter 6)
  
• "Given the important differences in development between the mouse and the human..." (Chapter 7)
• "we start to understand why the development of mice and humans is so different, even though they share virtually the same set of genes." (Chapter 9)
• "The atlas indicates that some organs in humans develop much earlier than in chick or mouse embryos and some later, yet another warning that it is not straightforward to extrapolate from the findings of animal research, say, the effect of toxins on development." (Chapter 10) 
• "We now know that this can happen in the mouse embryo, but we still don't know for sure whether this might occur in a human embryo." (Chapter 10, 76/138)
• 'this emphasizes the value of the mouse embryo as a model system and, at the same time, the need for studies of human development." (Chapter 10).

Further Reading

• Zernicka-Goetz lab home page features the most important and ground-breaking publications ('synthetic' embryos). A synthetic embryo is an embryo which is generated from different stem cells, not generated by the fusion of egg and sperm (chapter 9) and can be made in large numbers. Interesting aspect is the factors that cause self-assembly of a synthetic embryo (see: Philip Ball How Life Works).
• Gretchen Vogel (2016) Pushing the limit. By culturing human embryos for longer than ever, Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz is revealing their “powerful beauty”—and sparking debate. Science, 28 Oct 2016 (recommended!).
• video: The Dance of Life: How Do We Become Ourselves? - Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz (youtube).
  
• EPA scraps plan to end mammal testing by 2035 Science 19 jan 2024.

"New technologies are useful as a supplement to animal experiments, Sass says, “but I’m not sure that they’ll ever be able to tell us whether a child exposed to lead as a fetus is going to have trouble sitting still in a classroom.”

 Nederlands:

• Prof. Kees Brunia over vivisectie: Onze weg naar de kennis van het centrale zenuwstelsel is bezaaid met dode kikkers. blog 17 maart 2015
  
• Duizenden muizen voor niets opgeofferd voor de medische wetenschap? blog 9 april 2013
• De meeste medische experimenten met chimpansees waren overbodig blog 5 nov 2012
   

Update 24 Apr 24

The Dutch government invests in animal-free innovations 

Kabinet investeert in proefdiervrije innovaties

"Het Nationaal Groeifonds investeert 124,5 miljoen euro in een nieuw Centrum voor Proefdiervrije Biomedische Translatie. Van deze investering wordt 55 miljoen euro direct en 69,5 miljoen euro onder voorwaarden toegekend. Het doel van het centrum is om veiligere, effectievere en betere medische behandelingen te stimuleren en tegelijkertijd dierenleed te verminderen. ... 

Tegelijk blijkt steeds vaker dat de resultaten verkregen uit dierproeven maar beperkt of zelfs helemaal niet vertaald kunnen worden naar de mens. In de meeste van deze biomedische ontwikkelingstrajecten blijkt pas tijdens de studie met patiënten dat dierproeven niet de therapeutische werking in de mens voorspellen."

Most remarkable:

it’s becoming increasingly clear that the results obtained from animal experiments can be limited and ineffective. In most biomedical development pathways, it is only during in-human studies that it becomes apparent that the animal experiments conducted were unable to predict therapeutic effects in humans. " !

Update 26 Apr 24

Mariana Lenharo (2024) Do insects have an inner life? Animal consciousness needs a rethink. Nature 19 April 2024.

A declaration signed by dozens of scientists says there is ‘a realistic possibility’ for elements of consciousness in reptiles, insects and molluscs.

Crows, chimps and elephants: these and many other birds and mammals behave in ways that suggest they might be conscious. 

Notes

1. Outcome of pregnancies with trisomy 2 cells in chorionic villi   Prenat Diagnosis, 2010. Conclusion: In at least 95% of cases with trisomy 2 in CVS cultures there is confined placental mosaicism (CPM). The prognosis is good, but in about 15% of cases there is fetal growth restriction. On the other hand: "most embryos from women ⩾40 years old are chromosomally abnormal and rarely develop further." from: Egbert R. te Velde , Peter L. Pearson (2002) The variability of female reproductive ageing.
   
2. Ignorance and indifference: "Despite the plethora of scientific evidence for climate change, for instance, many people still avoid engaging with facts about global warming. Nor do they always want to know about the harsh living conditions of farm animals. And consumers often ignore the ethical origins of the products they purchase." Scientific American article Why Some People Choose Not to Know, 11 Dec 2023. 
3. This idea that there is no blueprint of the body in DNA is forcefully argued by Philip Ball (2024) How Life Works. See my previous blogs. Magdalena Zernicka-Goetz uses the word 'self-organization'. This a very general and vague concept. Turing models make 'self-organization' quantitative and testable.

Curieus patroon op vacuümglas na een forse regenbui

regelmatig patroon van cirkels op raam

 

Grote verrassing! En enige ongerustheid. Na het openen van de gordijnen 's ochtends vroeg zie ik condens op het raam met een mysterieus regelmatig patroon van allemaal evengrote cirkels. Nooit eerder gezien. Wat heeft dat te betekenen? Waar komen die cirkels vandaan? 

Het patroon zit over het hele raam. Aan de randen zit het niet. Het blijkt op de buitenkant van het raam te zitten. Het is condens. Het had de vorige dag flink geregend. Kennelijk geeft de combinatie van vacuümglas + hoge luchtvochtigheid buiten + kou buiten = condens. Alleen het patroon is totaal onverwachts. 

Detail: heldere cirkel rond afstandshouder
begrensd door condens.

Bij nader onderzoek blijkt dat de doorzichtige cirkels, waar dus geen condens zit, precies op de plaats zitten van zgn. afstandhouders. De afstandhouders zijn de kleine zwarte puntjes en zijn het middelpunt van de cirkels. Deze afstandhouders zitten er om te voorkomen dat de twee glasplaten tegen elkaar aan klappen door het vacuum. Puur natuurkunde. Ik heb dit verschijnsel nooit ergens gezien of gelezen [1]. Ik heb het daarna niet meer gezien. Zeldzaam dus. Wel condens aan de binnenkant van het raam, maar nooit aan de buitenkant en zeker niet in dit regelmatige patroon. 

In feite is de condens aan de buitenkant een goed teken. Het betekent dat het glas aan de buitenkant koud is en aan de binnenkant warm [2]. Conclusie: isolatie werkt goed. Maar: condens aan de buitenkant betekent dat het raam koud is, dus het ontbreken van condens in die cirkels betekent dat het plaatselijk warmer is. En dat moet betekenen dat daar de warmte van binnen naar buiten lekt via de afstandhouders. Fysiek contact. Helaas kan vacuümglas niet zonder die afstandhouders. Dus die lekkage is onvermijdelijk. Ik weet niet hoeveel warmte er weglekt. Hoe kouder en vochtiger het buiten is, hoe kleiner de cirkels. Als 's ochtends de buitentemperatuur stijgt en de luchtvochtigheid daalt zullen de 'warme' cirkels groter worden totdat alle vocht is verdampt.

Die afstandhouders lijken dus een nadeel, maar bedacht moet worden dat dit glas getest wordt met afstandhouders. Dat kan niet anders. De isolatiewaarde van glas wordt uitgedrukt in een U-waarde. Hoe lager de U-waarde, hoe beter het glas isoleert. De U-waarde van vacuümglas is 0,4 - 0,7 volgens Milieu Centraal. Die waarde is dus noodzakelijkerwijze inclusief de afstandhouders. Dus in theorie zou de U-waarde nog lager kunnen zijn als er minder of helemaal geen afstandhouders nodig zouden zijn! Maar dat gaat dan weer tegen de wetten van de natuurkunde in ...

 

Berekening totale oppervlakte cirkels *)

• Het glas in bovenstaande foto heeft 29 rijen van 21 afstandhouders = 609 afstandhouders in totaal. 
• de afstandhouders zelf zijn plm. 1 mm in diameter, maar de cirkels hebben een diameter van tenminste 2,5 cm
  
• De oppervlakte van een cirkel met 2,5 cm diameter = pi x r2 = 3,14 x 1,25 x 1,25 = 4,90625 cm2. (2,5 cm is de minimum doorsnede)
  
• De totale oppervlakte alle cirkels = 609 x 4,90625 = 2.987,9 cm2.
• Het raam heeft een oppervlakte van 120x162 cm = 19.440 cm2
  
• Het percentage cirkels van totale glasoppervlakte = 15,4 %

dwz 15,4% van het oppervlakte van het raam laat warmte door (op het moment van de meting). Maar er zijn ook cirkels met 3 cm en 4 cm diameter (afhankelijk van het stadium). Dus 15,4% is een minimum. De cirkels verdwijnen vanzelf na 1-2 uur afhankelijk van de zon.

 

*) 18 april: De tekst is aangepast naar aanleiding van een oplettende lezer.  Duidelijk is gemaakt dat de afstandhouders zelf maar plm. 1 mm dik zijn en het woord 'doorsnede' is vervangen door 'diameter'.

NB: een aardig filmpje dat uitlegt wat vacuümglas is en welke soorten er zijn.

Noten

1. Iemand tipte mij dit filmpje waar op dit tijdstip precies hetzelfde patroon te zien is! [16 april]
   
2. Ik heb de oppervlakte temperatuur aan de binnenkant van het raam laten meten met een 'warmtepistool': 20 graden! [15 april 2024]